Here's my videos of Gustav during his CAT procedure yesterday. The first one was right away, then the second one was after about a half hour of work. There was more, but the camera ran out of memory. Warning: these will seem incredibly boring, because it's pretty much about 7 minutes of Gustav and Justin standing in a field. However, here's what's going on:
Chelse, the behaviorist, is standing really far away, like 40 yards away. She walks up to a certain spot, then stands there. Then when she sees Gustav do something she likes, she retreats. After she retreats, she sort of pretends to be examining the prairie grass and just hangs out. Then after 15 seconds, she repeats, this time going a bit closer (about three steps). She used her keys to mark her spot in the grass. Justin held Gustav, and I taped it and also communicated with Chelse via hand signals. If I saw something she should shape for I made a sign. Then about every five trials we took a little break and Gustav and me and Justin wandered around the park a bit.
Interesting details: Gustav is a pretty stoic guy, but I've identified some of his signals of relaxation. The first video and second video show how much more relaxed he's gotten. His tail is lower (a big one), his mouth is open more often, his general body position/muscle tone is more relaxed. You can also tell when he notices Chelse or something else in the environment: his mouth closes and he stiffens slightly.
Here they are, enjoy my inane, one-sided conversation with Justin :)
Also, I tried out DAP spray on bandannas for the dogs today. My personal opinion is that it made a big difference. I had a conversation with the mailman from across the street with no hysterics. Gustav got a bit tense at a few dogs, and Dottie barked once at a lady on a bike who said hello. But other than that they were exceptionally calm. I'll keep it up and see if I see a big difference. I was thinking about maybe running a scientific experiment where Justin either does or doesn't spray them, without telling me, and I can report on behavior on the walk. After maybe ten trials maybe a clear pattern will emerge. Or maybe I won't do that, it sounds hard. We'll see.
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I think Gustav showed quite a few great signals..I LOVED his rolling around!
ReplyDeletehe did check in with you quite often too....hmmm..this is new...not quite sure what he was supposed to do :)
I was also going to add I liked your commentary on the protocol, as with everything in life...interpretation can be different, or someone can shed light on something you didn't pick up on.
thanks.
thank you.
Yeah, I noticed he looked up at me quite a bit as well. And not as much at Justin. Maybe because a. I was talking b. I was pointing a weird camera at him or c. I'm the treat dispenser. Justin gives treats plenty as well, but he likes to cover his bases just in case.
ReplyDeleteI wish I could have gotten Chelse in the shot. Maybe next time I do it I can narrate when she moves away. I asked her what she was shaping for and she said sometimes she was shaping for duration, meaning remaining relaxed for a little while (not just for a second) makes scary things go away. I hadn't thought of that as a shapable thing, I was envisioning specific relaxation behaviors, but he was so far under threshold it wasn't like we had to "wait" for relaxation. I liked that approach, a lot of CAT that I've seen (like on the DVD) has the dog barking or growling and then you have to stand and wait for them to stop and offer another behavior. I hate watching my dogs be anxious like that and look up to me like "I thought you were keeping me out of situations like this! Why do I have to take care of this myself?"
And I see what you mean about friendly decoys: just rewarding the dog for being relaxed around stuff is certainly valuable.
I'm hoping to try on my own, maybe this weekend. I'm trying to decide whether to have my decoy just sit somewhere and me and Gustav can approach and retreat ourselves, or to try to have them do the approach (timing is so much trickier that way!)
Only people who have had reactive/fearful dogs could appreciate watching a dog stand in a field for seven minutes or so, ha ha! His signals seem so much clearer to me now: the mouth closing is a big one.
Have a nice day!
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ReplyDeleteI always start with decoy stationary looking away, you/dog walk & stop at distance and hang out.
ReplyDeletedecoy then a slight turn to the side then looking down, then in the general area slowly like Chelse of where you are w/dog but then not directly at the dog then decoy holds until notices the relaxation in the dog and that's her cue to turn her back on the dog (she remains stationary).
Then I'd move away with dog.
1-dog is rewarded by Chesle looking away
2-dog is also rewarded by you by getting to move away
After that repetition where you notice an increase in the novelty of the decoy is wearing off....decoy adding movement, then you adding movement walking and stopping.
I'll see if I can video George this weekend. Sometimes if you watch others you can pick up on things that may work for you. It was helpful for me to watch this video as well.
I agree with you and the way Chelse has started Gustav's work. It's similar to the way Leslie McDevitt works, where the dogs start off way under threshold.
When I watch the CAT or BAT video's or even the counterconditioning/desensitizing...I notice that they often move away quickly, and I don't EVER move fast with a reactive dog at first.
Adding movement is stimulating and most times you can see the relaxed dog...now becoming aroused again...counter productive. I can find a video of I think it was CAT for you to watch what I mean. Have you noticed that as well?
Whether it's me & dog or decoy walking away is always done in a slow and relaxed pace. Slow as in slow breathing, loose body, slow pace.
There's enough day to day pressure already, and I don't think it gives the dog enough time to figure out what is going on and his body enough time to be in a relaxed state. These fresh air sessions are awesome!
Great point. Chelse and I did talk about her method for moving away: she said she did a real slow, curved turn. I know for a fact that Gustav's triggers include fast, direct walking and talking to whoever is walking him (that's why my conversation with the mailman was so impressive: I NEVER get to talk to people on a walk! Talking even makes Dottie bark, although with her I suspect it's that she is bored and does not want to stop and listen to me gab, and would like to hurry things along by making it unpleasant.)
ReplyDeleteGiven your advice, I think try to get a friend of mine to sit at the picnic table in the park and just read a book while we do our thing. That way I won't feel as bad for subjecting them to a tedious process, and I can ensure the timing is better. Also the pressure will be less for Gustav, although there may be some talking so he'll have to deal with that.
In the park there's also a baseball backstop (a big tall fence) that Chelse recommended I use for when I think Gustav's ready to sniff someone. They can be on opposite sides just in case he changes his mind about how scary the person is!
I personally think it will be easy to tell when Gustav switches over. His reaction to friends versus strangers is so different he's like a different dog. Justin is more skeptical on this one, he worries about how quickly Gustav can switch from okay to not okay, sometimes because of some trigger we don't even know about. I humbly think that Gustav is better at sending out those preliminary signal than we think, we just have to be hyper aware of them. It's not like he goes from loose body and low slow tail wagging to barking and lunging in one step, there's a lot of subtle changes in between those points, including stiffening, closed mouth, tail position, ear position, direction of the body, staring, and even growling and hackles.
I'd love to see a video any time you get around to it.
that would be a perfect idea! great way to start. i love the read a book idea too...it's hard to get people NOT to look over too often and direct stare...ask me not to look at something...or stare and all of a sudden I'm staring....
ReplyDeletefor really reactive dogs I've gotten the people in the distance to yawn slowly as they glance over too then lick their lips as they turn away.
my guys taught me about the yawn when I was rushing them one morning trying to get them to "quick pee" and I was repeating myself...they started to yawn at me :P to get me to chill out!
re: sniffing a stranger, did you see how we did it with Wags? I stood beside the person, and I put my hand on top of hers, and said "touch" so Wags touched my hand but stranger's hand was behind mine.
I wouldn't worry about Gustav...from what I've hear about him, he doesn't want to hurt anyone. I don't think it's in him. The dogs that have scared me, they do send a chill and your hair on your arms does stand up. There
s a big difference. Just like some people give us the shivers.
Plus he'll have so much practice that people will not be such a novelty anymore.
I truly believe that with all this CAT/ BAT/ desensitization, classical /operant conditioning...it just gets boring for them to lunge...we take all the fun out of it :P